jack
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Posts: 6
Posts: 6
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Post by jack on Apr 13, 2014 18:49:45 GMT 1
I'm working on a small FM synth in SE1.2 as well as slowly converting some of my older projects. This FM synth is the start of a larger project, but atm it's simply going to be small FM synth in the style of Ableton's Operator. So far I really like using SE1.2. I find it a little slower, the graphics take longer to load, but the side panels that allow for quick editing of controls totally makes up for it. I plan to use this small project as a testing ground for making a freeware 32/64/mac plugin so I can test it across the board. We'll see how it goes.
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tube
New Member
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Posts: 8
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Post by tube on May 23, 2014 16:56:55 GMT 1
Hi , i know that SE 1.2 32 Bit works, but more and more people ask me what happens with the 64 Bit plugs. So i am interested what happens with SE 64 bit. I am a little confused. Does SE plugs64 bit now works with ABLETON or not ?? The only thing i can do is wait until Jeff prog a more stable version of SE 1.2/64. Hopefully it comes this year. Greets
Andre' BTW, needs the SE 1,2 /32 bit Plugins the Fixed buffer option in FL or is it fixed in SE 1.2 ??
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Post by KlangManipulation on May 23, 2014 22:20:41 GMT 1
I'm working on a small FM synth in SE1.2 as well as slowly converting some of my older projects. This FM synth is the start of a larger project, but atm it's simply going to be small FM synth in the style of Ableton's Operator. So far I really like using SE1.2. I find it a little slower, the graphics take longer to load, but the side panels that allow for quick editing of controls totally makes up for it. I plan to use this small project as a testing ground for making a freeware 32/64/mac plugin so I can test it across the board. We'll see how it goes. do you write all the modules you need yourself, or do you use only standart modules?
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Post by sepoweruser on May 29, 2014 22:40:52 GMT 1
Hi , i know that SE 1.2 32 Bit works, but more and more people ask me what happens with the 64 Bit plugs. So i am interested what happens with SE 64 bit. I am a little confused. Does SE plugs64 bit now works with ABLETON or not ?? The only thing i can do is wait until Jeff prog a more stable version of SE 1.2/64. Hopefully it comes this year. Greets Andre' BTW, needs the SE 1,2 /32 bit Plugins the Fixed buffer option in FL or is it fixed in SE 1.2 ?? Synthedit 1.2 64bit only compiles to VST3 format, and Ableton Live doesn't support VST3. So 64bit SE plugins won't work in Ableton Live until they adopt the VST3 interface. It seems that theyhave no plans to adopt it, so forget about Live. I don't think a finished SE will be available this year. Maybe in two or three years, maybe four years, when you consider how many years it has been in alpha state already. Development is slower than a snail since Jeff has no time to develop synthedit since his working time is spent for another audio company as he wrote himself on the synthedit users group two or three years ago. You can search for it. Jeff can make no living from Synthedit, that's why he needs to earn money elsewhere, which slows down the synthedit development dramatically. So forget about 64bit for the next few years. In four years Live maybe has adopted VST3, so this issue will be solved then.
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Post by KlangManipulation on May 31, 2014 13:45:00 GMT 1
mmmmm... that means to better use 1.1x ?
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Post by sepoweruser on May 31, 2014 15:39:38 GMT 1
Depends on what you need. SE 1.1 ist 100% stable since a long time, but it's 32bit only. So if you want to compile 64bit plugins you MUST go with Synthedit 1.2.
Note that all former 3rd-party modules won't work anymore in SE 1.2 64bit. SE 1.2 64bit needs modules in 64bit too, and most 3rd-party modules aren't available in 64bit and most of them never will since some of the authors (like e.g. Dave Haupt) have gone out of business and some others have shown no interest in converting their modules to 64bit SDK3. If you however code your own modules you can use the time to re-write them using the SDK3 (if they aren't yet in SDK3 format) and compile them to 64bit so that they can be used in SE 1.2 64bit. While SE 1.1 still accepted SDK2 modules SE 1.2 only still accepts SDK3 modules, and for SE 1.2 64bit they must be compiled to 64bit.
In fact, the audio part of SE 1.2 64bit is 100% stable since more than a year, BUT the gui side still is only in alpha state. Most subcontrols don't work so at this time only very rudimentary GUIs can be realized (e.g. buttons and text-entries don't work, just knobs, faders and list-entries). Also most non-graphic gui modules like bool-splitter or converters don't work. Another thing to consider is that VST3 (which is the format SE 1.2 64bit uses) can't load the old fxp prests and fxb banks since it uses a new preset format (vstpresets). Luckily Jeff has inplemented a function which exports the presets of the loaded bank to vstpresets on compiling. But there's no such thing like VST3 banks, there are just single presets and a plugin just can load one single preset at a time, so browsing patches is impossible. The plugin only will have one single patch and you only can load one single patch, no banks. So changing sounds is extremely tedious and fully dependent on the host. There's no way to realize a patch browser. That's why Jeff maybe (hopefully) will implement a proprietary patch system somewhen.
As you can see: the main problem is WHEN finally all this will happen, finishing of GUI and implementation of patch system. This year, next year, or the year after the next year. Nobody knows. Until then VST3 64bit plugins are hardly usable for anything else than basic testing. Luckily Jeff has stated he's on the good way to make the subconrols stuff work. But how much time it actually will take nobody can answer, probably not even Jeff himself. So Synthedit 1.2 mainly is big waiting atm, hopefully not for Godot.
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Post by KlangManipulation on Jun 13, 2014 19:28:22 GMT 1
ok, so - is there any advantage (but you can use more than 4GB RAM or the new SE-GUI) to create a vst3 plugin?
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Post by sepoweruser on Jun 14, 2014 11:01:13 GMT 1
In fact you need to differentiate between 64bit and vst3 - they don't have to do anything with each other, there are also 32bit vst3 plugins - but in the case of synthedit the 64bit edition only exports to vst3 format, that's why vst3 and 64bit are linked in the case of synthedit
VST3: At the very moment there in fact only are disadvantages over VST2 (not all hosts can load it, no fxb/fxp compatibility, no banks, just single presets), BUT it's the format of the future (Steinberg has dropped suppport for VST2 by the end of 2013) and its SDK includes wrappers for AU (mac) and VST2 (windows) which will allows Synthedit to offer AU format on Mac (which is the mostly used in this platform) and theoretically still could cover the former VST2 interface on windows using the included wrapper (with a few drawbaks, e.g. missing bank support). Since more and more hosts are adopting VST3 the compatibility issue will be solved sooner or later (in fact the only major ones left not supporting VST3 are Ableton Live and Cockos Reaper). So the main left disadvantage still will be missing fxb/fxp bank/preset compatibility and only-one-preset-per-instrument-policy, which means you can't use your former fxb banks or fxp presets, and even when converted to vstpresets (which is the new format of VST3 - SE 1.2 64bit luckily exports the presets of the loaded bank to vstpresets on compiling the plugin) the VST3 plugin just has one single preset and you just can load one single preset at once using the VST3 host. Jeff hopefully will solve this very bad shortcoming by implementing an indepentend proprietary preset system.
64bit: The only advantage indeed is the ability to access more RAM, which e.g. means you can use more plugins simultaneously in a session, but again, 64bit is the architecture of the future, all operating systems are 64bit now, and more and more people are using 64bit hosts and so only can use former 32bit plugins by using a bit-bridge (if available the included one, or else JBridge) which is a issue for many and it also doesn't work well in some cases. So 32bit is dead-end. There's no use at all anymore to develop anything in native 32bit in 2014, it's wasted time.
So I think Jeff had a good forward thinking regarding his decision for VST3 64bit as new base format, even if it still will take some time and investment until it will be 100% supported and presets can be evently well managed as it used to be with VST2.
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tube
New Member
Posts: 8
Posts: 8
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Post by tube on Sept 6, 2014 14:52:25 GMT 1
Hi all, 6.09.2014 i have now install the latest SE 64 Bit for testing. Thought that now it was more possible to compile and run VST3 Plugs. But no success. I can compile the synth in 64 Bit using the Folder \\ VST3 in the system. But if i want to run the plug in Savihost3 (VST3) for example , it crashes imediately. Now i have download FL 11 64 bit. FL see the new VST3 plug but on a call it crashes imediately. Do you have the same ?? Greets Andre' * Plugin built using SE 1.21070 * - Plugin seems to run fine in Savihost. - I keep getting this error in FLstudio while playing a pattern. (I can click it away, but after a short while it returns)
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tube
New Member
Posts: 8
Posts: 8
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Post by tube on Sept 6, 2014 18:57:07 GMT 1
Ok, latest news from 06.09.2014 after 4h!!! Windows update, NOW i am able to start the plug in FL 11 64 Bit. But some graphics are not shown , the keyboard for example and a few elements . But , it starts . If it sounds i test later.
Greets
Andre'
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Post by Cajhmere on Feb 2, 2015 15:36:04 GMT 1
I'm learning SynthEdit one month around. I will definately design 64bit VST's. So I learn the basics in Version 1.1, but learn 1.2 also, cos at the end I'll just use 1.2 when stabile (and buy 1.2 then).
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