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Post by twoifbysea on Jun 16, 2018 23:36:41 GMT 1
Rob,
- Are the RH-StereoBal module's Low/High values reversed? A knob low value of 10 & high value of -10, pans a stereo signal left or right. Shouldn't it be the other way around?
- Mono signals are diminishing to 0 db when hard panned hard left in most DAW's. That makes sense, since most DAW's output mono signals on the left channel & the signals seem to be reversed.
Best,
Dave
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Post by Rob on Jun 17, 2018 10:05:36 GMT 1
Hi Dave, Could very well be they are reversed, I wouldn't be surprised.. I've rebuilt the module using Andrew his -3dB pan law suggestion ( all credits goto him ). Try the new one please: rhmodules.nl/temp/SE/Rhbalance.zip |
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Andrew
Developer
Posts: 110
Posts: 110 
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Post by Andrew on Jun 17, 2018 10:25:18 GMT 1
I've rebuilt the module using Andrew his -3dB pan law suggestion ( all credits goto him ).
Lol, I can't even remember that, and don't always trust my math - I mix up the signs of stuff all the time  |
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Post by Rob on Jun 17, 2018 11:48:56 GMT 1
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Andrew
Developer
Posts: 110
Posts: 110
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Post by Andrew on Jun 17, 2018 13:29:51 GMT 1
After reading that thread again I think I might have stoked the fires of confusion a bit! I didn't fully explain tapers, laws and critically -> the difference between balance and pan. With balance you only adjust 1 side at a time, while the other side stays at unity. Easier to explain in code:
///simplest version - linear balance - exactly like CK Stereo Balance module
float pan = panKnob + 1.f;//knob -1 to +1 range (i.e SE -10/+10) (actual range is 0-2, hence the +1)
float LevelLeft, LevelRight;
if (pan <= 1.f)
{
LevelLeft = 1.f;
LevelRight = pan;
}
else
{
LevelLeft = 2.f - pan;
LevelRight = 1.f;
}
outputLeft = InputLeft * LevelLeft;
outputRight = InputRight * LevelRight;
I suggested the pan laws because you can use them as tapers(knob curves) instead of laws. For the +3 dB Power or Sqrt Law you actually have to lower the gain by -3dB to make it a taper. So it actually becomes a 0dB Power or Sqrt taper  I should really learn to explain things better, lol.
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Post by twoifbysea on Jun 18, 2018 1:12:57 GMT 1
Rob,
That works, however there is now an audible click/pop when you cross over from 0 volts + or -.
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Post by Rob on Jun 18, 2018 18:05:42 GMT 1
Andrew, thanks for explaining..
I realize now balance is the wrong name in my module.
Panning control with equal power should be it.
Dave, that's what you want as well right?
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Post by Rob on Jun 18, 2018 19:11:00 GMT 1
Rob, That works, however there is now an audible click/pop when you cross over from 0 volts + or -. You can delete that module, I've compiled a new one. It uses the equal power (3dB) pan law code Andrew kindly provided. rhmodules.nl/temp/SE/Rhpanner.zipPerformance: 0.0470% CPU ( i5-6600k ) |
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Andrew
Developer
Posts: 110
Posts: 110
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Post by Andrew on Jun 19, 2018 17:18:19 GMT 1
Andrew, thanks for explaining.. I realize now balance is the wrong name in my module. Panning control with equal power should be it. Dave, that's what you want as well right? Uhmm, I tested your newest Panner module, it's still a balance control, stereo panning would mix left and right channels.
P.S. Stereo Balance seems to be the default in a lot of DAWs. I'm a dual-mono kinda man myself, 'grew up' on a crappy Mackie desk/mixer -> only mono channels so I got used to working that way.
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Andrew
Developer
Posts: 110
Posts: 110
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Post by Andrew on Jun 19, 2018 17:41:04 GMT 1
P.P.S. @rob - depending on what you decide to make, balance or pan -> I'll add the one you are not making to my module pack for completeness.
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Post by Rob on Jun 19, 2018 18:11:22 GMT 1
All this time had the wrong idea about panning vs balance..sheesh. Thanks a lot for the link. Ok, it's balance then. I've re-uploaded rh-balance with the equal power code and removed the panner module. rhmodules.nl/temp/SE/Rhbalance.zip |
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Andrew
Developer
Posts: 110
Posts: 110
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Post by Andrew on Jun 19, 2018 20:51:17 GMT 1
All this time had the wrong idea about panning vs balance..sheesh. Thanks a lot for the link. Ok, it's balance then.
It confused the crud out of me too the first time I tried to do it too! Most people prefer Balance these days, but I'll add a stereo-pan option to my module pack with all the different laws and stuff, already got a mono-pan, so that would complete the set.
Random note: Got my EQ filters done today, still can't beat the old Biquad for efficiency when not modulating:
Not Modulating: RH Biquad(Peak): 0.082% TD EQ A(Peak) : 0.112%
Modulating: RH Biquad(Peak): 0.349%
TD EQ A(Peak) : 0.213%
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Post by twoifbysea on Jun 20, 2018 3:49:58 GMT 1
Thanks Rob, I won't be able to try it until Monday. BTW the link is down.
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Post by Rob on Jun 20, 2018 16:43:21 GMT 1
Corrected the link.
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Post by Rob on Jun 20, 2018 17:55:31 GMT 1
Random note: Got my EQ filters done today, still can't beat the old Biquad for efficiency when not modulating: Not Modulating: RH Biquad(Peak): 0.082% TD EQ A(Peak) : 0.112% Modulating: RH Biquad(Peak): 0.349%
TD EQ A(Peak) : 0.213%
Oh, you do have the source right? Good that you've got better performance while modulating. My note: Am such a noob, al these years the biquad source from Earlevel.com was supereasy to include in SE as is. Don't know what I was thinking back then, but now have a test module with biquad as an object. |
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Andrew
Developer
Posts: 110
Posts: 110
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Post by Andrew on Jun 21, 2018 17:55:33 GMT 1
Random note: Got my EQ filters done today, still can't beat the old Biquad for efficiency when not modulating: Not Modulating: RH Biquad(Peak): 0.082% TD EQ A(Peak) : 0.112% Modulating: RH Biquad(Peak): 0.349%
TD EQ A(Peak) : 0.213%
Oh, you do have the source right? Good that you've got better performance while modulating. My note: Am such a noob, al these years the biquad source from Earlevel.com was supereasy to include in SE as is. Don't know what I was thinking back then, but now have a test module with biquad as an object.
Nah, don't have the source code around, just did a quick side by side test with the modules. I'm actually using some of Nigel Redmon's(Earlevel) envelope generator code in my upcoming modules, not his code 100% but the math part, which is quite brilliant.
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Post by twoifbysea on Jun 22, 2018 21:28:34 GMT 1
Rob, The module cuts -3.2 dB at 5 volts (centered). At 0 or 10 (hard left or right) the side that it's panned to returns to 0 dB. A volume setting of 14.5 is need to bring the signal to 0 dB when centered (5 dB).
It's volt range is setting should be 0-10 right?
Best,
Dave
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Post by Rob on Jun 22, 2018 23:17:34 GMT 1
That’s correct Dave, am using the equal power pan law Andrew posted. If it’s a little more then 3dB, it could be because of the use of approximations in the code. 3dB center, sin/cos taper, constant power. The signal level stays at 0dB when panned right or left, but drops by -3dB in each channel when centered. This is the same as the Cubase SX default panning law. en.audiofanzine.com/recording-mixing/editorial/articles/panning-laws-revealed.htmlPs: I can add the other tapers Andrew posted, thru a mode option if you want. |
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Post by twoifbysea on Jun 23, 2018 3:23:48 GMT 1
Thanks for the explanation Rob. Options would be great.
The -3 dB pan law maintains a pleasant sounding balance when panned L/R. However, I don't understand the benefit to reducing the overall signal by -3 dB at center?
How about this pan law?
"0 dB center, balance control. The signal level stays constant whether the signal is in the left channel, right channel, or set to the middle".
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Andrew
Developer
Posts: 110
Posts: 110
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Post by Andrew on Jun 23, 2018 10:26:40 GMT 1
I agree with Dave - centre should be 0dB(it's like that in my DAW). Think you can just modify the code posted "simplest version - linear balance" up above.
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I should really learn to explain things better, lol.