alienoiz
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Post by alienoiz on Mar 14, 2014 20:29:05 GMT 1
what you say is to use the delay concept making the delay output connected to a feedback delayed module back into the first input and then into the second delay, then again and into the 3rd delay and so on for the 6-8 delays right? but these delays are serial or parallel connected?
after this i connect the last delay, into the predelay and then this one to the reverb, right?
Duarte
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Claus
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Post by Claus on Mar 18, 2014 20:08:23 GMT 1
Two possibilities: 1: Just two delays (L+R) and into the DH-Reverb, that's it. Remember to route the direct sound and the sound from the DH-Reverb thru a VCA/PAN-module to the Outputs. If You only use DH-reverbs MIX-parameter, You will not be able to control Predelay-level independent from the DH-Reverb. 2: (Must have beeen tired the other day since I wrote that the Predelay is AFTER the Delaytaps, which is utterly nonsense ) Input goes to the Predelay. Sound from Predelay to a common input for the 6-tapped ones. The output of the 6-taps each goes thru a VCA and is connected to the common taps-input between the predelay and the 6 taps. The sixth tap also is connected to the DH-Reverb that is used for the final tail sound. I'm working on the second approach at the moment, 'caus allthough DH-reverb sound very good, I like to have more control over the Early reflections and like the sound of the BBD-like one So if a normal Predelay is what You are after ie. the "Ding (wait) Diiiiinnnnnnngggggggg"-like type, number 1 is easy as a pie
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alienoiz
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Post by alienoiz on Mar 19, 2014 18:32:29 GMT 1
well, i have a dumb but important question!!!! in a lot of years i never learned what "tap" means in sounding, and i feel ashamed by asking this but could you tell me? sorry but its necessary :S
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Claus
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Post by Claus on Mar 19, 2014 21:43:27 GMT 1
Yep, no problem. In the analog days before digital circuits, to create delay on sound-signals, the Bucket-Brigade chips where made. A BBD chip consists of one or more collections of "serialized" capacitors. They also use an Oscillator (internal/external) for the switching of sound (voltages) from one capacitor to next in a single line. One line equals one tap, so a 6-tap BBD chip contains 6 groups of capacitors of different sizes. Different sizes, because we want to be able to make more than one early reflection at a time So in SE a tap is a delay-module. And it is the combination of these different timed taps that, together with independent volume-/feedback-control of each tap back to the common input, can create some very good sounding early reflections/smaller rooms. Especially when You start putting filters into the feedback too, and the very subtle changes in delaytime. Looong story short: Parallell And all 6 taps (not just the sixth as I wrote earlier) are also connected to the output. And to make stereo You'll need 6 more sets, but You probably know that And, to conclude all this, the datasheet of the MN3011 from Panasonic: www.experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Datasheets/MN3011.pdfBTW, this is a good read, if You want to understand old BBD chips in general: www.electrosmash.com/mn3007-bucket-brigade-devices
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alienoiz
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Post by alienoiz on Mar 19, 2014 23:04:41 GMT 1
Thanks, so basicaly what i have to do is to connect for each L and R, 6 delays in serial, connect each output of these delays to the first input with a feedback delayed module in the middle of each line, and also each output of these 6 delays into L and R of the reverb. Change the modulation of each delay to create diferent time reflections and in the sixth delay i apply a control for pre-delay.
Of course i could apply a diferent control for each modulation of each one of the six delays but this could generate in a bad effect, right?!
I presume these first five delays modulations must be very well calculated in order to get a "perfect" reflection on the final sound!
: )
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Claus
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Post by Claus on Mar 20, 2014 2:20:55 GMT 1
To recap with corrections and all:
1: Setup 2 Delays with times from 0 to ~500 ms. These are the PRE-delays, delaying the sound until it hits anything at all. 2: The sound now hits the input point for Your 6-tap early reflections setup. So setup 6 delays in parralel, all fed from this single input (and also feedback) point. 3: As You wrote, connect each output of those six taps thru feedback module - AND a VCA level adjust back to the input so each feedback (reflection) can be controlled. 5: Repeat 2-4 for right channel. 6: Finally, connect the outputs from each tap (6 for left channel, 6 for the right) to the DH-Reverb. The trick is now to mix in the DH-reverb at the right time, so the final tail blends in with our own early reflections.
If You use the times in the MN3011-datasheet I linked to above, You should be on Your way, since these are specifically calculated/made for generating early reflections/reverb effects.
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alienoiz
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Post by alienoiz on Mar 20, 2014 6:20:42 GMT 1
ok..so im just missing one thing i think??!!! this input/feedback point its in between of the 2 first delays and the 6 taps?! right? I´m sorry being asking so much things but im not doing the project yet, like i said i have some other that ive began after starting the thread, but im sure i wont forget your teachings. im finding it easy, but without information passing all is dificult..so im glad this is not the case I will also keep the MN3011-datasheet, i paid few attention to this one before but i read the electromash.com one. now i see that MN3011 has the values i need to make this right
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Claus
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Post by Claus on Mar 20, 2014 12:37:42 GMT 1
"this input/feedback point its in between of the 2 first delays and the 6 taps?! right?" - Yep. I will put a simple diagram up at a later time, but let's see what You get first
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setronic
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Post by setronic on Mar 20, 2014 21:35:48 GMT 1
i find predelay essential for usable reverb, along with knocking the tops off a bit. it creates, well a little gap between the dry+wet, an offset. the Orion native reverb is good for this, simple and effective.
'tap' btw is 'tapping off' the main signal, a bit like taking part of the flow of water from a main source and redirecting it. as opposed to tapping ON something, like fingerdrumming on a table.
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alienoiz
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Post by alienoiz on Mar 21, 2014 19:34:17 GMT 1
Claus - Thanks man, like i said i will leave this for later, the diagram may not be necessary for me but sure will be usefull in the case im not able to do this correctly... "i like it hard but with opennings" so that my mind can learn and work @setronic - Thanks for the tip on tap..it sure will make me understand more things in this area
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setronic
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Post by setronic on Mar 22, 2014 17:25:37 GMT 1
only just realised/thought about it myself
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